Dr Joneja interview: histamine intolerance & mast cells

tomatoes

It lives! I haven’t managed to finish the transcription – having not transcribed anything longer than five minutes since my days at CNN, I totally forgot how much of a bugger it is. Yes I know, that’s what outsourcing is all about, but I wanted to extract all the good stuff for us to enjoy – quickly. Dr Joneja was kind enough to offer me 90 minutes of her time so the interview has been spilt into two. Part 1 is below and part two will be posted this time next week.

For those of you not familiar with her work (do you live on Mars perchance?), Dr Janice Joneja is a pioneering histamine and allergy researcher, immunologist and dietician. Here’s a little interview taster:

– Why you may still be able to eat tomatoes

– How lowering your histamine level can help minimise allergies (if you’re histamine intolerant or lacking the histamine-lowering diamine oxidase enzyme)

– Why elimination is counterproductive (wait, haven’t I been saying that too?)

– How to figure out whether you have histamine intolerance (not what you’d expect a doctor to tell you!)

– Why high histamine food lists vary

– The answer to why some low histamine foods still bother you (starts with a B!)

– Why some foods with antihistaminic properties still appear on high histamine lists

– 3rd generation probiotics that poop out histamine lowering diamine oxidase

– How your brain is tripping up recovery

Since it’s not clear in the interview, I thought I should share what it is that shocked me about the interview: Dr Joneja’s approach to treating histamine intolerance is pretty much step by step how I healed myself. More than anything, hearing that I am on the same track as a doctor who has made a difference in so many people’s lives was truly wonderful. Yes, I know I have physical proof (medical tests), but knowing that people out there are watching my recovery and cooking up the recipes that took me from my “deathbed” (so it seemed for a long while) to the incredible health I now enjoy, is a responsibility. I’m overwhelmed to see I’m on the right track, but a little sad that I didn’t meet Dr Joneja a few years ago.

So here it is, the Dr Janice Joneja interview on the role of diet and nutrition in histamine intolerance, mast cell activation and mastocytosis:

http://youtu.be/3kPIkD5U2p4

Then don’t forget to isten to part two of our interview here.

We cover:

– How antihistamines are driving up your histamine level

– Which hidden food additives are torpedoing your recovery

– Why you shouldn’t worry about going too low histamine

– The biggest danger you’ll face on the low histamine diet

– Her approach to salicylate intolerance

– Brain fog

– How excess histamine is causing anxiety disorders

– Why histamine makes you crazy!

– The five most important steps in histamine intolerance recovery

About Dr Joneja

Dr. Joneja is a researcher, educator, author, and clinical counsellor with thirty years of experience in the area of biochemical and immunological reactions involved in food allergy and intolerance. She holds a Ph.D. in medical microbiology and immunology, and has been a member of the academic faculty of the University of British Columbia and other universities. Currently, she is an adjunct professor in the Faculty of Agricultural Sciences at the University of British Columbia, and an Honorary Research Fellow in the School of Biosciences at the University of Birmingham in England. Dr. Joneja is also a dietitian (RD), registered in the College of Dietitians of British Columbia, a member of Dietitians of Canada, and the American Dietetic Association. For 12 years she was head of the Allergy Nutrition Program at the Vancouver Hospital and Health Sciences Centre. She is the author of five books and a dietetic practice manual on food allergy, and her work has been published in peer-reviewed scientific and medical journals, as well as in popular magazines. Dr. Joneja is a respected lecturer at universities, colleges and hospitals internationally, and regularly appears on television and radio call-in shows as an expert in her field.

It’s finally here! Man Food – a high nutrient antihistamine and anti-inflammatory ingredient filled book geared towards guys, women who love to work out, yoga like they mean it, or just load up on healing nutrients. Features my personal shopping list of antihistamine and anti-inflammatory foods. 

The Anti-cookbook and all liquid Anti-Detox Book, don’t treat any conditions, but feature a plethora of the high nutrient antihistamine and anti-inflammatory ingredients that have been instrumental in helping me feed myself on a limited diet. The Anti-cookbook features a six page list of antihistamine and anti-inflammatory foods and comes in regular and Paleo. 

The Low Oxalate Cookbook features antihistamine and anti-inflammatory rich recipes. 

Don’t miss the Low Histamine Beauty Survival Guide for non-toxic beauty tips, the skinny on histamine releasing (mast cell degranulating) beauty ingredients, antihistamine and anti-inflammatory beauty alternatives and the top brands natural brands I’ve found.

Take a peek at my other low histamine and antihistamine cookbooks for more high nutrient recipes and sign up to my mailing list for freebies. 

Please remember, even antihistamine and anti-inflammatory foods can hurt us, please always exercise caution and consult a medical practitioner before adding new foods. 

55 responses to “Dr Joneja interview: histamine intolerance & mast cells”

  1. Paul Avatar

    Most interesting interview ever on Histamine.

  2. Harriet Avatar
    Harriet

    You are amazing to have landed such an important and interesting interview! Can’t wait to hear the rest! Brilliant!

  3. Catherine Avatar
    Catherine

    Thank you so much for posting this interview. It was so helpful to hear that there is really no point in getting any kind of testing and that those tests out there, like Imupro I’m assuming, are a waste of money and prove nothing. I’m in Australia and histamine intolerance is not spoken about by any specialist I have ever seen so I really was considering paying $150 to send my blood to Germany through Imupro.
    I was also interested to hear what she said about thyme!! And that poor 14 year old boy who had only been eating 8 foods and now has a food phobia. So terribly sad. I am very interested to hear part 2 of this interview. Thanks again!

  4. Michel Gimena Avatar
    Michel Gimena

    You’re just fantastic, You’re helping so many people. Thanks, Yasmina.

  5. Sarah Perry Avatar
    Sarah Perry

    This is by far the most rational, sensible and informed discussion on histamine intolerance available. Fabulous work!

  6. Judith from the Netherlands Avatar
    Judith from the Netherlands

    What an interesting interview. I hope that the probiotic will be on the market one day, another step forward! Thank you for sharing Yasmina, you are helping a lot of people.

  7. Brittany Edelmann Avatar

    Hiya. I’m an aussie in Germany and I just got tested and I have HI. My parents mentioned it to my old doctor back home, and he had know idea what it was, so I see how it would be frustrating. It seems to be a much bigger thing here. I’ll be going back for another test in a couple months, so if you have any specific questions maybe I could ask. I’m also going to see a medical dietician so I can ask him too.

  8. thelowhistaminechef Avatar

    That’s so kind of you to take the time to share your comment Paul! I’m glad it was of use to you. Part two will be posted next week and I have a number of other very interesting interviews lined up!

  9. thelowhistaminechef Avatar

    🙂 You’re so sweet! Thank you xx

  10. thelowhistaminechef Avatar

    Hi there, that’s wonderful! Yes absolutely, I’m always very interested to hear different practitioner views on histamine conditions.

  11. thelowhistaminechef Avatar

    Thanks so much for your message! There’s so much more good stuff coming up in part two 🙂

  12. thelowhistaminechef Avatar

    Thank YOU for reading/listening and for all your help and support.

  13. thelowhistaminechef Avatar

    Thanks so much! I’m so happy you enjoyed it. Dr Joneja said she was very happy with the questions too 🙂

  14. thelowhistaminechef Avatar

    You’re very welcome! Thanks for taking the time to comment. Yes, I would love it too!

  15. Dot SLady Avatar
    Dot SLady

    I had a DAO test to give more concrete visual proof I was not making up my health issues to my family, friends and doctors, ie I’m NOT a hypochondriac. I really didn’t expect to compare DAO/histamine ratios/levels … which I know fluctuate and would be pretty much impossible. I never visualized DAO around my body/organs, so I appreciated hearing about different levels. Re: red beans, I can’t imagine why not other beans, but I’ve read that beans/legumes can be deadly in uncooked/raw form due to lectins causing red blood cell clumping (how one would ingest kidney beans in this way I don’t know; maybe just a warning to be sure to cook the heck out of them); connection somehow I don’t know? Lectins mess with the gut lining. http://bit.ly/15B8lNK. Calcium is involved with leaky gut also as I learned from this: http://bit.ly/oxolateslg. Is this a plausible direction? LOVED the bacteria talk as it ties into what I’ve been learning about LPS. I’m looking forward to Pt. 2. Thank you SO much.

  16. Dot SLady Avatar
    Dot SLady

    Another blog re: lectins & histamine: http://bit.ly/16yg6Ry.

  17. Jolanda van den Berg Avatar
    Jolanda van den Berg

    Great interview. Easy to understand even for me as a non native speaker. This interview makes me understand “how I work”. Will listen to it again some other time to make it mine for I think that is what will help me..understanding it and making it my new way of living.
    And Yasmine since I consider you a new sort of best friend, it was nice to hear your voice too.

  18. Megan Cook Avatar
    Megan Cook

    I am in awe of the ways in which the universe sets us on the path of discovery. You posted this interview yesterday – the day I discovered your website – and this interview is the single most life-changing explanation for the current state of my health that I have discovered so far. I plan to listen to it again and again. Thank you!

  19. Missee Avatar
    Missee

    Thankyou thankyou thankyou. Fantastic succinct questioning and answers. Everything makes sense now. Thankyou!

  20. Trixie10 Avatar
    Trixie10

    Wonderful Interview!! You have a great voice for this line of work!! Dr. Jonega was so enthusiastic to share her knowledge and you asked great questions. I can not believe in just the few months I discovered your website how much you have accomplished. Hope to see you on TV some day!!! You should feel so accomplished and we thank you!!

  21. Ivan Mazour Avatar

    I still thing that it’s such a shame that there is currently no specific diagnostic test that can truly determine what we suffer from. The medical paradigm would give us a clear problem-solution strategy.. I guess the only way to get through it is to become our own doctor, to listen to our body and work out a routine / diet that helps us heal. With guidance and advice from people who have successfully done it, of course, like you Yasmina!

  22. Hilary Avatar
    Hilary

    This is very interesting and rings all sorts of bells for me. I do however have strong cravings for foods such as tea and chocolate. Is it possible that the release of histamine initially makes one feel good – and then comes the hangover?

  23. Renée Blackman Avatar
    Renée Blackman

    Hi I’ve started a low histamine diet and you page has become my bible. I have Systemic Mastocytosis. What I’m actually writing for is my Immunologist has said nothing about the low histamine diet, this is something that my mother and I have researched and implemented, my doctors seem to know nothing about it. So I want to see an immunologist that knows about this. Instead of upping the doses of my pharmaceuticals I want to be more able to go with the eating plan, previously due to me having too many wild reactions I had stopped eating and was consuming just a meal replacement shake. I now think they were full of histamines. I ended up admitted to hospital in terrible pain.
    I live in Western Australia as I have seen my doctors through Royal Perth Hospital I am unaware of who to go to in the private sector. Would you know of anyone? Your help in this matter would be greatly appreciated.
    I have let my body come to great, continual harm, unknowingly, I really want to rectify this.
    I have also had a brain bleed (AVM) doing my research I’ve just found out that that could have been my Mastocytosis as well. So I’m wheelchair bound unable to talk properly or use my right hand properly. I feel a tad bad about this terrible mess that could maybe have been avoided by my personal knowledge.
    Renée

  24. Castnap Avatar
    Castnap

    Very interesting and very helpful. I am one of those people who is extremely sensitive to benzoates.

    Do you know if coconut is high or releases histamine? I have had several nasty and scary reactions.
    I haven’t ever read where any one else has reactions to coconut and all my allergy testing comes back negative.

  25. Baba Avatar
    Baba

    Thank you so much for this report. I have just been diagnosed with histamine intolerance at the age of 44, which explains a lot of wierdness in my life. Living in Europe, I have gotten a lot of great information from Forums in German, but my 2 American sisters with the same condition are still not diagosed. This is wonderful to share with my English speaking family since they have no understanding of their condition! Thank you so much, as good quality information is tough to come by.

  26. Nona Avatar
    Nona

    I hope that you can amass the funds/time to do more such interviewing. It is extremely calming to get some trustworthy information on this topic. Do you have any means of accepting small donations, apart from your book sales?
    It was asserted that most legumes are low-histamine. This is a little confusing to me, as I have been led to believe that phytates on the skins of beans necessitate at least an overnight soaking before cooking. Otherwise, the phytates supposedly impede the absorption of minerals during digestion. Have you covered this question anywhere on your blog?

  27. Lorna Hunt Avatar
    Lorna Hunt

    This was a wonderful interview; both the excellent questions and the clear and frank answers, and the overall sense of information exchange. Thank you so much.

    I have a couple of questions if you have time.

    1. I have strong reactions to the red ripened fruits that Dr. Joneja discussed: tomatoes, strawberries, rasberries (and sadly, thyme, as well). I learned about hibiscus from your wonderful web site and now I drink hibiscus tea almost every day. I also frequently eat red onion and occasionally beet. Are there other red foods that you can recommend that will be low impact on the histamine bucket level?

    2. I’m not sure what ‘third generation’ probiotics are. Are they the probiotic supplements that one can buy in capsule form? I’ve been taking them daily and they don’t seem to have a dramatic effect, but also, my symptoms (respiratory), after a month of a low histamine diet, have improved DRAMATICALLY but not yet backed down fully. Is it a good idea to avoid capsule probiotics? Should I try to do something else? If so, what would you recommend?

    Thanks!
    L.

  28. thelowhistaminechef Avatar

    You know I was sad to have confirmation of the kidney bean thing, because not only do they have some antihistaminic properties, they’re also potent cancer fighters, as well as just darned tasty! Absolutely – not thoroughly cooking beans gives me a big belly ache. Calcium is a mega mast cell trigger – so it makes sense that it’s involved in “leaky gut. Just finished part two 🙂 Thanks for leaving a comment!

  29. thelowhistaminechef Avatar

    Awww that’s so sweet of you to say thank you 🙂 I’ll be posting the transcript in a couple of hours – it’s finally done yay!!

  30. thelowhistaminechef Avatar

    Hi Megan, wow! I’m so glad you found it of use! I wish I had listened to this interview myself a few years ago 😉

  31. thelowhistaminechef Avatar

    Brilliant! So happy you enjoyed it. Thanks for taking the time to leave a comment.

  32. thelowhistaminechef Avatar

    Hi there! That’s so kind of you to say thank you! Yes, it has been an incredible ride and I thank you for being here, reading, listening, and most of all, taking the time to let me know you’re into it! Thanks again.

  33. thelowhistaminechef Avatar

    Isn’t it though. It’s b* annoying. I try my best…some days are great, some a little less so. As we discussed, sharing my information with people has been an incredible motivator – I feel that we’re all in this together!

  34. thelowhistaminechef Avatar

    Oof! Yes it could have been the masto. I would recommend writing an email to Dr Theoharides at Tuft’s in Boston and contacting Dr Joneja. She is an immunologist. They can both offer advice on the role of diet – Dr T by email and Dr J by skype consult. Sadly I don’t know anyone in your area…I know quite a few people with masto who are successfully using diet as an adjunct to pharmaceutical therapy. I suggest checking out this mastocytosis group where holistic therapies are discussed http://www.facebook.com/groups/287752947987652/?fref=ts

    Please don’t beat yourself up. This is all a learning process and there’s only so much even docs can do for us, let alone us knowing it all. It will come and you will be out of that wheelchair in no time! I BELIEVE you can do it. I don’t have masto but I certainly had almost every last symptom. I reversed them so there’s no reason you can’t.

    Be wise – baby steps, and always let a doc know what you’re doing please.

  35. thelowhistaminechef Avatar

    Hi there, coconut isn’t high histamine but it is high in glutamine. On bad days I can’t eat it either. But it’s all about how high the water in the bucket is…if it bothers you to that extent I would be very wary. I have managed to reintroduce foods that have been horribly problematic in the past, but you really need to be careful if you have a history of going into shock (as I do).

  36. thelowhistaminechef Avatar

    Hi there! You’re very welcome – thanks for listening 🙂 I’m very glad you found it useful. It’s too bad about your sisters – but as Dr Joneja says, responding to the diet is still really the golden standard for diagnosis. But I know it’s tough when you feel that you’re still searching for the answers…

  37. thelowhistaminechef Avatar

    That’s SO sweet of you to say! I don’t at the moment. I am however working on other ways to monetise the blog (at no cost to my readers) so that I can lower book prices but increase my output of interviews.

    I have covered the soaking issue in various recipes. Many legumes not only are not high histamine, they in fact possess antihistamine properties. Soaking does indeed inactivate the anti nutrients and allowing for better absorption. You should however throw out the soaking water (because that’s where the amines end up). Thanks again for taking the time to comment!

  38. thelowhistaminechef Avatar

    Hi there!

    Thank you for the very kind words. I’m very happy that you enjoyed the interview.

    I don’t know about red foods per se. There’s a six page list in the anti-cookbook. Oh wait, beets 🙂 I just wrote up a blog post on it.

    She meant that the probiotics that she has researched would be 3rd generation, meaning that they are highly targeted.

    I don’t do so great with probiotics. I find that they do me far more harm than good. It might be worth taking a break for a few days and seeing if that has any effect on the respiratory symptoms. If that works, then you could look at re-introducing them once your overall level is much lower. Sometimes that’s all it takes.

  39. thelowhistaminechef Avatar

    Hi there, YES! Histamine initially makes me really really happy, excitable and ready to take on the world. Then…not so much. Hangover is exactly it. I’m sure the feel good factor is the reason many of us crave it!

  40. Vivian Avatar
    Vivian

    Thank you, Yasmina. Thank goodness for you and your important work.

  41. thelowhistaminechef Avatar

    You’re very welcome! That’s so sweet of you to say. I really appreciate you taking the time to leave a comment. Yasmina

  42. Susie Runge Avatar
    Susie Runge

    Hello- great lecture Part 1- so thankful for all the detailed info- my doctor will enjoy too! Here’s a potentially silly Q- if digestion uses histamine to release gastric acid- is it better to eat larger meals less times a day vs the smaller meals more times a day (that many fitness experts suggest)- and also- does chewing gum instigate the release of histamine?

  43. Sheila Avatar
    Sheila

    This is very interesting. thank you so much.

  44. Nikki Roberts Avatar
    Nikki Roberts

    I mentioned histamine intolerance to my allergist at Mayo today, he was very hesitant to discuss it with me. I have tried other diet modifications and still felt bad. My suspicions on this intolerance comes after eating and the roof of my mouth blisters, I develop joint pain, my throat gets tight, my hands and feet always seem puffy and tender, I also have symptoms of MS. My Dr at Mayo tried to diagnose me with fibromyalgia and I kindly declined the diagnosis. In my heart I do not feel like that is what I have. I am looking for a Dr who is knowledgable on the subject, is there anywhere I can find a list of recommended Dr’s? No one wants to do the labs or testing, the allergist gave me a very short list of high histamine foods and evaded my questions. He tried to tell me I had symptoms of chronic rhinitis and my sense of smell was causing my post meal congestion. Any help is greatly appreciated. I plan to start my low histamine diet on Monday.

  45. Amy Swanson Haar Avatar
    Amy Swanson Haar

    I am a 31 year old mother of 2 and was at my breaking point until I came upon this site and blog. I can’t thank you enough for helping me get my life back. I like I said was at my breaking point I’m 31 and tired of saying “I just don’t feel good” with having vague symptoms drs and allergist ( who told me I was allergic to histamine based on my skin test cause I had a reaction to the histamine control test) they were unable to help or guide me in any sort of way. All they could say was its a result of my hypothyroidism and pituitary tumor. I was beginning To think these symptoms were all in my head and I was just being lazy and depressed then I found this site cause a friend who’s a dietician told me I need to look up low histamine diets and when I did it was like fireworks going off, have I finally found what was with me. I did a little detox and have slowly started to follow the diet and can’t believe the difference. It’s a daily struggle still to follow this new live style of eating cause it’s not life threatening but I will pay for it the next day so it’s easy to cheat but I love reading and seeing what people do and different foods to try. I can’t thank you enough for helping others like myself and sharing what you have learned. Sincerely yours

  46. Amy Swanson Haar Avatar
    Amy Swanson Haar

    I am a 31 year old mother of 2 and was at my breaking point until I came upon this site and blog. I can’t thank you enough for helping me get my life back. I like I said was at my breaking point I’m 31 and tired of saying “I just don’t feel good” with having vague symptoms drs and allergist ( who told me I was allergic to histamine based on my skin test cause I had a reaction to the histamine control test) they were unable to help or guide me in any sort of way. All they could say was its a result of my hypothyroidism and pituitary tumor. I was beginning To think these symptoms were all in my head and I was just being lazy and depressed then I found this site cause a friend who’s a dietician told me I need to look up low histamine diets and when I did it was like fireworks going off, have I finally found what was with me. I did a little detox and have slowly started to follow the diet and can’t believe the difference. It’s a daily struggle still to follow this new live style of eating cause it’s not life threatening but I will pay for it the next day so it’s easy to cheat but I love reading and seeing what people do and different foods to try. I can’t thank you enough for helping others like myself and sharing what you have learned. Sincerely yours

  47. Jane Avatar
    Jane

    can you tell me what the problem with L-Glutamine is with histamine and how that effects some people?
    loved the interview!

  48. AngieF Avatar
    AngieF

    just an informative interview! Thankyou!
    I am aware that soaking does the trick, but may I ask what your opinion is on canned legumes? If the ingredients are just salt and water and you rinse them thoroughly is there any problem? I am so scared of cans now!!

  49. Nic Gustafsson Avatar
    Nic Gustafsson

    Wow. Thank you so much for this. I only just stumbled upon it thanks to ZiZai Dermatology sharing it on FB but I suspect I may have something related to histamine intolerance because I’ve been reacting to all sorts of things for the past 1.5 years and it’s been driving me crazy. One episode (I usually get a bad skin rash mainly on my arms and legs) even took me to the ER. I will be looking deeper into this subject and following your diet to see if it may help me as well. Thank you thank you thank you!

  50. Nic Gustafsson Avatar
    Nic Gustafsson

    Wow. Thank you so much for this. I only just stumbled upon it thanks to ZiZai Dermatology sharing it on FB but I suspect I may have something related to histamine intolerance because I’ve been reacting to all sorts of things for the past 1.5 years and it’s been driving me crazy. One episode (I usually get a bad skin rash mainly on my arms and legs) even took me to the ER. I will be looking deeper into this subject and following your diet to see if it may help me as well. Thank you thank you thank you!

  51. Suzanne Burrows Avatar
    Suzanne Burrows

    I am a 67 yr old woman. At 19 I was told I was Atopic (I was always itchy) and I have been taking Zyrtec (an antihistamine) for at least forty years. Every so often I try to leave it off but only missed two doses and I was coughing, sniffling, with red scratchy eyes and urticaria. I have recently found out I have 28 Type III (Ige) food allergies (mainly glutens and dairy plus egg, soy, chickpeas, aloe vera etc.) I was tested for DAO deficiency but was OK and told histamine intolerance was unlikely to be the cause of my chronic fatigue, however your interview with Dr Joneja rang lots of bells for me.

    How does antihistamine medication fit into this picture and how do I get off it when the symptoms rebound so quickly and severely.

  52. Rebecca Wilson Avatar
    Rebecca Wilson

    Are any of your books tell you how to eminateand reintroduce, in a mother of two who is just starting Low histamine elimnation diet and feel lost as my Natropath gave me a list and some things I can eat some I cant, my symtoms are all of what had and I feel I’m at breaking point. I would buy one of your books but need to know which one would be good to start with rebecca Wilson nsw australia

  53. Roger Elliott Avatar

    Fascinating interview Yasmina. The point about histamine being a key part of stomach acid production explains why trialling supplementing DAO enzyme gave me indigestion, which I never have. I suspect it’s also implicated in the adrenal process as I also found supplementing DAO made me extremely fatigued after a couple of days.

  54. Roger Elliott Avatar

    Fascinating interview Yasmina. The point about histamine being a key part of stomach acid production explains why trialling supplementing DAO enzyme gave me indigestion, which I never have. I suspect it’s also implicated in the adrenal process as I also found supplementing DAO made me extremely fatigued after a couple of days.

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Welcome!

Yasmina was an award-winning broadcast journalist with a decade of experience covering war zones for CNN and the BBC. She devoted her journalism skills to researching and writing about histamine. Click here to learn about her. Each post is carefully and fully referenced with the latest scientific research. Not sure where to start? Here’s a four week meal plan and overall Histamine Reset.


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